Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/08/1993 08:00 AM Senate RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
JOINT MEETING OF THE
HOUSE AND SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEES
March 8, 1993
8:00 a.m.
HOUSE RESOURCES MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Bill Williams, Chairman
Representative Bill Hudson, Vice Chairman
Representative Con Bunde
Representative Pat Carney
Representative John Davies
Representative Joe Green
Representative Jeannette James
Representative Eldon Mulder
Representative David Finkelstein
HOUSE RESOURCES MEMBERS ABSENT
None
SENATE RESOURCES MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Loren Leman, Vice Chairman
Senator Drue Pearce
Senator Dave Donley
Senator Fred Zharoff
SENATE RESOURCES MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Mike Miller, Chairman
Senator Steve Frank
Senator Al Adams
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT
Representative Irene Nicholia
Representative Carl Moses
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
Confirmation Hearing:
Board of Fisheries Appointees:
Larry Edfelt
John Hanson
Dick Jacobsen
Deborah Lyons
Board of Game Appointee:
Susan Entsminger
TESTIMONY HEARD, NO ACTION ON CONFIRMATION
WITNESS REGISTER
John Hanson, Appointee
Board of Fisheries
Box One
Alakanuk, Alaska 99554
Phone: 238-3016
Position Statement: Provided information and answered
questions related to his appointment
Dick Jacobsen, Appointee
Board of Fisheries
P.O. Box 43
Sand Point, Alaska 99661
Phone: 383-2042
Position Statement: Provided information and answered
questions related to his appointment
Representative Irene Nicholia
Alaska House of Representatives
State Capitol
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
Phone: 465-4527
Position Statement: Questioned appointees
Deborah Lyons, Member
Board of Fisheries
Box 296
Petersburg, Alaska 99833
Phone: 772-3572
Position Statement: Provided information and answered
questions related to her re-appointment
Susan Entsminger, Appointee
Board of Game
Mile 91, Tok Cutoff
Tok, Alaska 99780
Position Statement: Provided information and answered
questions related to her re-appointment
Russell Heath
Alaska Environmental Lobby
P.O. Box 22151
Juneau, Alaska 99802
Phone: 463-3366
Position Statement: Observer
John George
Alaska Outdoor Council
9515 Moraine Way
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Phone: 789-0172
Position Statement: Observer
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 93-25, SIDE A
Number 000
The Joint Meeting of the House and Senate Resources
Committees was called to order by Representative Bill
Williams, Chairman of the House Resources Committee, at 8:14
a.m. House members present at the call to order were
Representatives Williams, Hudson, Bunde, Carney, Davies,
Green, James, Finkelstein and Mulder. Senate Resources
Committee members present at the call to order were Senator
Leman (Acting Chair) and Senator Pearce.
CHAIRMAN BILL WILLIAMS noted the joint meeting was being
held by teleconference with sites in Anchorage, Fairbanks,
Valdez, Ketchikan, Soldotna, Kenai, and Barrow.
SENATOR LOREN LEMAN, ACTING CHAIR OF SENATE RESOURCES,
thanked the House Resources members for the opportunity to
hear testimony in a joint meeting. He anticipated other
senate members to join the meeting as it proceeded.
CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced the purpose of the meeting was
to hear testimony from four appointees to the Board of
Fisheries, and one appointee to the Board of Game. He said
the remaining appointees to the Board of Game would testify
during the meeting scheduled for Wednesday, March 10, 1993.
He mentioned the Boards of Game and Fisheries were meeting
in Juneau, so most of the board members were able to appear
personally in legislative hearings. He added if there was
not enough time to complete all public testimony, another
meeting would be scheduled for that purpose.
CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS introduced the first Board of Fisheries
appointee for consideration, John Hanson. Mr. Hanson was
appointed to his first term in 1989, Chairman Williams said,
and his second term would conclude in 1995.
JOHN HANSON, MEMBER, BOARD OF FISHERIES, testified by
teleconference from Alakanuk. He advised that he had
fulfilled his first three-year term on the Board of
Fisheries, and was re-appointed in July, 1992, for a second
three-year term by Governor Hickel. He said his first
priority on the board is the conservation of fisheries'
stocks, and his second is subsistence. He noted he is a
subsistence fisherman, and is committed to giving his best
effort to the board.
Number 142
REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE asked Mr. Hanson to comment on
mixed stock fisheries, and how to sort out the problem of
allowing fair allotments.
Number 155
MR. HANSON answered that the mixed stock question requires
more data from the Department of Fish and Game before the
Board can deal with the problem and develop mixed stock
regulations in the future that will assure fish being spread
out all along the river.
Number 188
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked Mr. Hanson what he saw as the
best means of conserving and enhancing fish stocks.
MR. HANSON recommended curtailing some fisheries at the
lower end of the river.
Number 205
CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS noted Representative Nicholia had joined
the meeting.
Number 216
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES asked Mr. Hanson whether there
was adequate biological data for conservation and mixed
stock decisions.
MR. HANSON responded that the Board does not have all the
biological data it needs. He said the Department of Fish
and Game gives the board the data it has, but budget
restrictions limit the amount of data that can be gathered.
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN commented on Mr. Hanson's many
years of commercial fishing experience, and asked Mr. Hanson
whether he could be objective in determining fish quotas
among commercial and sport fishing interests.
Number 252
MR. HANSON responded that throughout his years on the Board
of Fish, he has worked for both segments. He noted
sometimes achieving balance requires voting in the opposite
direction of one's own personal interest. When there are
insufficient stocks, he said, the first priority is reaching
escapement. Then remaining fish are allocated among the
commercial, sport and subsistence fisheries, he explained.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN commented on the anticipated reduction
in red salmon in the coming season, and noted the Kenai has
been reduced for sports fishing, by about one-third. He
asked Mr. Hanson if he felt commercial fishing should also
be reduced proportionately.
Number 275
MR. HANSON said the board had dealt with the Kenai and Cook
Inlet issues in November, 1992. He said sport fishing was
reduced and commercial fishing on Cook Inlet was reduced
somewhat and, if escapement was not reached for 1993, the
board would give the Department of Fish and Game notice.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Mr. Hanson to clarify his stand
on the reduction of sportfishing.
MR. HANSON answered that if sportfishing were curtailed,
commercial fishing would also be curtailed because both play
a role in reductions in a fishery where escapement goals are
not being reached.
Number 318
REPRESENTATIVE ELDON MULDER referred to limitations on the
Kenai on sport-caught red salmon, which he noted were
recently restricted by the Department of Fish and Game to
two per day. He asked Mr. Hanson whether he would propose
reopening the allocations on the Kenai for reds for
commercial fishing.
MR. HANSON responded by clarifying that he had said if the
Department of Fish and Game sees escapement is not being
reached, then both sport and commercial fishing would have
to be curtailed.
Number 345
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER noted restrictions were already being
imposed on sportfishing, but did not see anything being done
with commercial fishing.
Number 353
CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked whether anyone else had questions
for Mr. Hanson. Hearing no response, he thanked Mr. Hanson
for his testimony, and announced the committee would next
hear from Dick Jacobsen, a new appointee to the Board of
Fisheries whose term would expire in 1996.
Number 365
DICK JACOBSEN, APPOINTEE TO THE BOARD OF FISHERIES,
addressed the committee by telling of his background as a
longtime commercial fisherman from Sand Point who has been
involved in local government and Native corporation
management. He noted his familiarity with the Board of
Fisheries' process since 1966, and his participation in a
number of different fisheries. He commented on his limited
knowledge of sports fisheries and his unfamiliarity with
fishing on the Kenai River.
Number 390
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER remarked to Mr. Jacobsen that one of
the biggest challenges to be faced as a member of the board
would be to reach a balance between the interests of sport
and commercial fishing. He asked how Mr. Jacobsen viewed
his role in reaching that balance.
Number 400
MR. JACOBSEN responded that he expected to use the
information provided by the Department of Fish and Game and
the knowledge of the other members of the board. He added
he is an advocate of the board system, and said with good
board members who use the information available to them, it
does not matter what area of the state or what walk of life
they are from; they would make rational decisions. He hoped
the board would keep politics out of its decisions.
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER commented that given Mr. Jacobsen's
commercial fishing background, it would be natural for him
to have a bias toward commercial fishing interests. He
asked Mr. Jacobsen if he felt he could be objective, and his
opinion on the best use of fisheries resources.
Number 421
MR. JACOBSEN answered that the highest priority would be
putting food on the table, and added in commercial fishing
that is essentially what is at stake. He believed he could
be objective enough to listen to the expertise of the staff
and other board members to come to rational decisions.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked Mr. Jacobsen to comment on the
mixed stock issue and conservation of individual stocks,
given the heavy fishing in an environment of mixed stock
fisheries.
Number 436
MR. JACOBSEN commented that essentially every fishery in
Alaska is a mixed stock fishery to some degree. If the
board were to develop a policy to regulate the fisheries to
ensure escapement and protect the resource, he said, the
board would be doing its job. He added the board could not
resolve all the individual problems of every region.
Number 450
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES posed the hypothetical circumstance to
Mr. Jacobsen of escapement being seriously jeopardized by
the level of intercept fisheries, and asked Mr. Jacobsen
whether he would, in that circumstance, vote to reduce the
total level of intercept fisheries.
MR. JACOBSEN replied that if information provided to the
board showed the mixed stock fishery was detrimental to the
stock, then he would be in favor of restricting that
fishery.
Number 460
REPRESENTATIVE IRENE NICHOLIA raised the issue of Mr.
Jacobsen's role as mayor of the Aleutians East Borough, and
his lobbying for interests of area fishermen. She noted his
activities toward doing away with a chum cap, and asked
whether he could look at that issue fairly as a member of
the board.
Number 471
MR. JACOBSEN believed he could be fair. He remarked on the
level of information the board has available from the
Department of Fish and Game, and said he did not think the
board always had enough information to work with. If the
information showed actions were detrimental to the chum
stock, he felt he could deal with the issue fairly.
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA asked Mr. Jacobsen's feelings on
formulation of mixed stock fishery policy to be considered
later in March, 1993. She asked his position on further
extension of intercept fisheries, such as Area M and North
Peninsula.
MR. JACOBSEN referred to the mixed stock policy as needing a
lot of work and information-gathering. He added mixed stock
policy will have to be broad based and the board will not be
able to "micro-manage" every regional concern.
Number 493
VICE CHAIR BILL HUDSON noted there has been much concern
about intercept fisheries. He asked Mr. Jacobsen what tool
might help the board make decisions that would deal with the
value of the fisheries. He commented that the board does
not always take into consideration where the money is going;
specifically, he addressed the question of board decisions
on fisheries that send the larger value of the fish to the
Pacific Northwest, versus a decision that would equalize the
value from the fisheries.
MR. JACOBSEN responded that the board could benefit from
that approach. He stressed retaining the economic value of
the fisheries within Alaska was a high priority.
Number 516
VICE CHAIR HUDSON asked Mr. Jacobsen whether he was prepared
to commit to the time required to serve on the Board of
Fisheries.
MR. JACOBSEN affirmed his understanding of the requirements
and was willing to make that commitment.
CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS noted Representative Carl Moses had joined
the meeting.
Number 529
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN raised the subject of value-added
opportunities in the fisheries. In particular, he pointed
to the multiplier effect of sport fishing, and asked Mr.
Jacobsen his attitude about the per pound value of
commercial fishing leaving the state, as opposed to the
value that stays in the state and is spread among various
industries with the sport fisheries. After escapement is
reached, but stocks are low, he asked Mr. Jacobsen how the
remaining fish should be allocated among sport and
commercial fishing interests.
MR. JACOBSEN answered that with a particular stock, it would
be possible for the board to look at that balance, but for
the state overall, the board would need to gather all
available information and it may be difficult to broadly
apply such a policy.
Number 559
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN acknowledged regional differences, and
noted the Department of Fish and Game had indicated that
heavily used sport fishing areas, such as the Kenai, will be
adversely affected by reductions of one-third the limit of
red salmon. He asked Mr. Jacobsen whether a comparable
reduction should be imposed on commercial fishing in the
area.
MR. JACOBSEN said as a new appointee to the board, he has
not seen all the information and did not feel qualified to
know whether the resource was in trouble. On that issue, he
said, he would benefit from the expertise of the other
members of the board.
Number 577
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE commented that he hears mostly from
personal use or sports fishermen, although he does have
commercial fishermen in his district. He noted there seems
to be an illusion that the Board of Fisheries is dominated
by commercial fishing interests. He asked Mr. Jacobsen to
describe his philosophy on the value of sport and commercial
fishing.
MR. JACOBSEN affirmed he appreciates the value of sport
fishing and, regarding the illusion of a bias toward
commercial fishing interests, he reiterated his feeling that
if board members use the information available to them and
make rational decisions, it should not matter what
background or region the individuals come from. He believed
the members could adequately represent the interests of
sport, subsistence and commercial fishing.
Number 608
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES asked Mr. Jacobsen whether, as a
commercial fisherman, he would recommend cuts in commercial
allocations to preserve the resource in his area if the
board received scientific information that justified such a
decision.
MR. JACOBSEN confirmed he would make such a decision.
REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES addressed the issues of
conservation and subsistence, and asked Mr. Jacobsen how he
would prioritize the use of fish.
Number 620
MR. JACOBSEN listed protection of the resource as his
highest priority, with subsistence next, followed by a
balance of other uses of the resource.
Number 630
CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced the next appointee for
consideration would be Deborah Lyons, who was first
appointed in 1990, and has been reappointed to a term to end
in 1996.
Number 640
DEBORAH LYONS, MEMBER, BOARD OF FISHERIES, told the
committee she is from Petersburg, and she commercial fishes
with her husband and sport fishes for personal use.
Number 646
SENATOR LEMAN asked Ms. Lyons to explain her attitude toward
advisory committees and how their recommendations affect the
decisions of the board.
MS. LYONS responded that the advisory committees provide
direct input into the affected communities, and assure fair
representation. She added it would be difficult for the
board to make well-informed decisions without strong
advisory committees.
Number 660
SENATOR LEMAN said he had received comments from one
advisory committee which felt slighted by the board. He
asked Ms. Lyons to comment.
MS. LYONS believed Senator Leman was referring to an
incident involving another Board member, not herself. She
said the chairman of the fisheries board usually assures an
atmosphere of mutual respect and allows input. Generally,
she stated, the standard of respect is high and the board
values the advisory committees.
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER commented that Ms. Lyon's
reappointment to the board has drawn opposition from various
sport fishing groups, and asked her to address the reasons
why that opposition exists.
Number 677
MS. LYONS had not seen a list of endorsements and
opposition, and so did not know who specifically was
standing in opposition. She commented that she recognizes
the value of sport fishing to Alaska and has tried to be
fair in listening to various points of view. She said the
Board of Fisheries set a new precedent when it made its king
salmon allocations in Southeast between commercial and
recreational fishing interests. She speculated that because
she comes from a commercial fishing background, some
opposition to the board's decision was attached to her
personally. She added she had written the finding on that
decision, which should indicate the board trusted her to be
unbiased. She stressed the board faces tough decisions in
balancing the interests of subsistence, commercial and sport
fishing.
Number 698
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER identified some of the groups opposing
Ms. Lyons' reappointment who had submitted letters to the
Resources committee. They included the Alaska Sportfishing
Association and Ketchikan Marine Charters, Inc.
TAPE 93-25, SIDE B
Number 000
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked Ms. Lyons her position on the
issue of limiting the number of sport caught fish that could
be shipped out of state.
MS. LYONS replied the board had heard reports of abuses of
sport fish bag limits, with excessive amounts being taken
out of state. She said the board formed a committee,
composed of the chair and the co-chair, who were both sports
fishermen, and Robin Samuelson from Dillingham. That
committee developed a proposal for public comment to deal
with the issue of an export limit. The department drafted
the proposal based on the committee's recommendations, and
when the board went into its statewide meeting, she said
things "hit the fan." The proposal came out with a one-day
bag limit for export, which she said was not the board's
intent in drafting the proposal. She noted she had not been
involved in drafting the proposal. As a board member, she
said her goal was not to be burdensomely restrictive, but to
deal with the abuse of bag limits.
Number 058
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES commented on the mixed stock
fisheries' issue and escapement on the Yukon. He noted
there is a perception in his district that commercial
fishing and intercept fisheries are unfairly impacting the
escapement into the Yukon system. He said public sentiment
is that the board has not required enough of a restriction
on the mixed stock situation. He asked Ms. Lyons to comment
on that situation.
Number 079
MS. LYONS replied that tagging studies on the Yukon River
did not show evidence that chum salmon were impacted by the
activities of the commercial fisheries. She added there was
a strong indication that stocks from the Kuskokwim might be
affected. The information was taken into account, she
explained, when the board made its decisions. Some hardship
may have been created on the Yukon, she said, after the
board's action two years ago when harvest levels were
lowered all along the river. She referred to the pending
treaty with Canada, and anticipated seeing more restrictive
management in the mixed stock fisheries of the Yukon.
Number 115
MS. LYONS remarked that one of the best actions the board
had taken was to recognize the Yukon River Drainage
Fishermen's Association. That organization, she said, had
obtained funding and will come before the Board of Fisheries
with recommendations to manage the fishery.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES, referring to the data used by the
board, asked whether that data showed clearly there was no
impact on the intercept fishery, or that the data was
inadequate to answer that question.
MS. LYONS responded that stocks bound for various areas are
taken in intercept fisheries, and the numbers will vary from
year to year with changes in a number of factors, such as
the weather. She said she would welcome funding to do more
tagging and stock assessment so the board would have
complete information on which to base its decisions. She
clarified for Representative Davies that the data available
to the board did not show a clear impact.
Number 161
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE referred to the controversy over Cook
Inlet commercial-caught versus sport-caught kings. He
commented that the value of a sport-caught fish is around
ten times that of commercial-caught. He asked Ms. Lyons to
comment on the controversy over commercial charter and hand-
troller/power-troller fishing.
MS. LYONS said wild stocks of king salmon managed under the
current treaty with Canada are allocated to Alaska in a
fixed number: 263,000 fish, each year. That number is
divided among commercial and sport fisheries, she explained,
and the Board of Fisheries was asked to make an allocation
decision because the sport harvest was seeing exponential
increases over the last three years. The reasons she cited
included good weather, growth in resident sport fishing, and
high abundance of king salmon. She noted there was also
growth in the charter sport fishing industry. That segment
of sport fishing has increased, in part, because of a
growing clientele coming from cruise ships.
MS. LYONS explained Sitka and Ketchikan have been
particularly affected by the increase in charter sport
fishing. She commented that the Board of Fisheries
attempted to make an allocation decision that would balance
the needs of all the participants in the fishery. Another
goal was more in-season management, she added, which would
help the board acquire current data to bring to the treaty
negotiations. Because the fishery was growing so fast and
data was not current, she said Alaska almost found itself
out of compliance with the treaty.
Number 215
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE noted the legislature will be looking
at the privatization of hatcheries, and asked Ms. Lyons her
position on the move toward privatization.
Number 239
MS. LYONS explained the board had written to the Senate
Fisheries Committee in 1992, regarding problems seen in
enhancement programs, and in response, she said, the
legislature passed the wild stock priority bill. She added
that as privatization proceeds, the Department of Fish and
Game should keep its monitoring role to assure the programs
provide healthy fish stocks. She stressed the importance of
interaction and response between the department and the
hatcheries.
Number 257
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN remarked on the perception in areas
with strong sport fishing interests that the board is biased
toward commercial fishing interests. He asked Ms. Lyons
whether, in times of stock reductions, she felt the board
has an adequate sense of the resource to cut back on one
portion of the fishery before the escapement count is known,
and not cut back on another portion. More specifically, he
asked if the commercial fishery allocation should be reduced
to the benefit of the sport fishing fishery, given the ten-
fold multiplier on the value of sport-caught fish versus
commercially caught fish.
Number 295
SENATOR FRED ZHAROFF interjected that he would like
clarification on where various fisheries fit in the category
of commercial versus non-commercial, given such activities
as charter sport-fishing, which are revenue-generating, but
still classified as sport-fishing.
Number 331
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN differentiated between sport and
commercial fishing as being a matter of indiscriminate
fishing versus discriminate fishing. He also pointed to
whether fish was caught for personal use. He noted also the
difference between net-caught and pole-caught fish. He
commented that he did not want to argue semantics, but
rather to determine whether there was a bias on the Board of
Game toward commercial fishing.
Number 370
SENATOR ZHAROFF again raised the question of where charter
boat fishing fits into the definitions of commercial versus
sport fishing. He considered the personal sport fishing use
of the resource in a "personal use" category, whereas he
would consider as commercial sport fishing the revenue-
generating activity of, for example, a tourist from Germany
who fishes at a lodge or on a charter boat. Using that
definition, he saw the Kenai as important for the commercial
sport fishing interests, and less important for personal use
sport fishermen.
Number 395
CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS commented that the question of defining
categories of fishing activities would be considered by the
board, and the purpose for the current joint Resources
meeting was to hear from the appointees. He noted Senator
Donley had joined the meeting.
Number 405
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN restated his question to Ms. Lyons
regarding the board's position on commercial fishing (which
he defined as net caught) versus sport fishing (or line
caught) interests.
MS. LYONS acknowledged Representative Green's concerns about
"reds" on the Kenai. She remarked that reds had been
readily available and she was not aware that the bag limit
had been lowered in anticipation of decreased returns to the
Kenai. If returns are decreased, she said the commercial
fisheries will see a decrease in overall catches also. One
reason for changes in regulations on the Kenai she said,
including the moving of dip net fishing below the bridge
from boats rather than from the banks, was due to a concern
about bank erosion and its effect on habitat.
Number 432
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN commented that, in effect, the
sportfishing is down by edict but nothing has happened with
reducing commercial fishing. He asked Ms. Lyons if, or how,
she might rectify the situation.
MS. LYONS said, given the amount of sockeyes that go into
the river, she did not see a one or two-fish change in the
bag limit significantly changing the escapement. Given any
surplus in escapements, she felt prior bag limits should be
maintained.
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA asked Ms. Lyons what considerations
she would give to the management of weak stocks, in light of
the fact that the board has no mixed stock policy to use in
making allocations in an intercept fishery. She
specifically referred to Susitna River reds and Norton Sound
chum, and questioned Ms. Lyons' voting record regarding
whether to sustain or expand intercept fisheries.
Number 450
MS. LYONS, in reference to her voting record, explained that
she looked at all the information available, and if she
believed that fishery would hurt the conservation and long-
term management of the stock, she would not support it. She
referred also to in-season management efforts of the
Department of Fish and Game in trying to prevent over-
escapement.
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA addressed the management of the
Lower Yukon fishery, and commented on the failure of the
department to implement closures.
Number 482
REPRESENTATIVE DAVID FINKELSTEIN also addressed the Susitna
River red salmon problem, and commented on lower
escapements. He asked Ms. Lyons what could be done in
relation to conservation of fish stocks.
MS. LYONS discussed the management options available, and
noted the main difficulty seems to be with the big Kenai
runs, and letting the drift fleet harvest all over Cook
Inlet. She said the board would have to look at some kind
of management to move them off the stocks to allow
escapement.
Number 508
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked Ms. Lyons if she was committed
to resolution of the problem with the incidental catch of
king salmon by commercial users, and how the policies can be
enforced.
MS. LYONS agreed the incidental catch was a difficult issue.
She noted it seems to be the inside nets that catch the most
king salmon. She said one response to the problem that has
been discussed is a policy of non-retention, but that raised
the question of whether it would reduce the catch or just
create waste of the fish. She told the committee she and
the board are open to ideas on the issue.
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked Ms. Lyons to describe what she
would consider to be an appropriate balance in the
composition of the Board of Fisheries.
MS. LYONS responded that ideally the board should be
comprised of two subsistence, two commercial, and two sport
fishermen, as well as one woman.
Number 540
CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS told the committee that in the interest of
time, Board of Fisheries' appointee Larry Edfelt of Juneau
would be asked to address the committee at another time, in
order to allow testimony from Board of Game appointee Susan
Entsminger. He noted the term to which Ms. Entsminger was
appointed began in January, 1993, and would expire in
January, 1996.
Number 561
SUSAN ENTSMINGER, APPOINTEE TO THE BOARD OF GAME, described
her experiences in hunting, trapping, and fishing. She said
she had spent 16 years in rural Alaska, and felt she could
bring a diverse perspective to the board.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked Ms. Entsminger to describe her
perspective on rural subsistence priorities.
MS. ENTSMINGER commented that subsistence was a complicated
issue and one that should be addressed by the legislature.
Number 584
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES rephrased his question and asked Ms.
Entsminger whether she generally felt subsistence was an
important use of the game resources.
MS. ENTSMINGER responded by saying that in the face of
federal takeover of lands for subsistence, it is important
for the state to get management of the lands back.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES raised that question of intensive game
management, and specifically, the recent decisions on wolf
management. He asked Ms. Entsminger about the
appropriateness of the intensive management.
Number 601
MS. ENTSMINGER referred to the state's constitution and its
provisions for sustained yield. She said there were times
when intensive management would be called for, and the board
should take all available information into account to make
decisions.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked Ms. Entsminger whether in the
three areas involved in the recent situation, intensive
management decisions were appropriate.
MS. ENTSMINGER commented that she was not yet on the board
when those decisions were made, but added that she had been
involved for nine years in the advisory committee process.
Based on the information, she felt in the case of the 40-
mile country, the decision was appropriate.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked Ms. Entsminger whether she would
support the resumption of land and shoot policies as a
method of predator control.
Number 620
MS. ENTSMINGER answered that she did not look at land and
shoot as a management tool.
Number 629
VICE CHAIR HUDSON posed to Ms. Entsminger the question
regarding the time commitment required for service on the
board and whether she was able and willing to make that
commitment.
MS. ENTSMINGER affirmed she would make the commitment of
time to serve on the Board of Game.
Number 636
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE remarked on the list of licenses and
permits held by Ms. Entsminger as noted on her resume. He
commented on the revenue base provided for wildlife
management from such fees, toward the goal of sustained
yield. He asked Ms. Entsminger what involvement she may
have had in the process that recently resulted in board
decisions on wolf population management.
Number 658
MS. ENTSMINGER remarked that she had participated in the
advisory committee process for nine years. She called the
advisory process important and expressed hope that funding
would be continued for advisory committees. She noted she
did not participate in the wolf plan advisory committee.
Number 670
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to Ms. Entsminger's resume,
and to two letters of opposition the House Resources
Committee had received from the Alaska Wildlife Alliance and
the Alaska Environmental Lobby. He asked Ms. Entsminger
whether she anticipated adverse effects from the opposition
and asked whether, if confirmed, she felt the opposition
would affect her ability to make fair decisions.
MS. ENTSMINGER did not feel her decisions would be affected
by the opposition.
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER addressed wildlife issues such as
conservation and hunting policies, and asked whether Ms.
Entsminger felt changes were needed in the state's approach
to conservation versus hunting and trapping.
Number 696
MS. ENTSMINGER noted misconceptions on the wolf issue, and
stressed the importance of communication between tourism
interests and sport hunting interests.
TAPE 93-26, SIDE A
Number 000
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN referred to Ms. Entsminger's
answer to Representative Mulder's question, and said it
seemed the view of tourism interests was not taken
seriously. He asked Ms. Entsminger her views on non-
consumptive users of wildlife resources, and whether she
considered those views as valid to the board.
Number 038
MS. ENTSMINGER remarked again on the lack of communication,
and stressed the need for open discussion of views from a
variety of interests.
Number 048
CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS closed testimony by the appointees to the
Board of Game and the Board of Fisheries.
Number 057
SENATOR LEMAN remarked that the Senate Resources Committee
intended to hear more testimony in additional hearings.
CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS added the House Resources Committee would
reschedule testimony from Larry Edfelt, appointee to the
Board of Fisheries.
ANNOUNCEMENTS
CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced the next meeting of the House
Resources Committee would be held at 8:00 a.m. on Wednesday,
March 10, to hear testimony from other Board of Game
appointees.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to come before the House
Resources Committee, Chairman Williams adjourned the meeting
at 9:45 a.m.
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